The World is Flat!

Hundreds of years ago, the world was flat.  Ask anyone.  All the EXPERTS agreed, all the books agreed, all the people agreed.  Sailors sailed within sight of land.  Religious leaders, everyone agreed, the world was flat.  

However, way in the background, someone stood up and said, The World is ROUND.   I'm sure this person was ridiculed, laughed at, and unfortunately, likely jailed or maybe even killed.  After all, EVERYONE knew the world was FLAT.  I know how these NAY SAYERS felt.

One of my clients e-mailed me the following from one of the Macaw Chat Rooms.  I want to take this time to address and rebut the misstatements in this forum.   I will address each paragraph after that paragraph in green and brown.  The original message will be in Red.  

I had the original E-mail from one of my clients here explaining the following.  After considering the close minded moderator of this chat or forum, and to protect my client from these kinds of intolerant people, I have decided to remove the comments.   She was actually scared about what these people might do if they knew who sent this to me.  I want to thank her for caring and letting me defend myself.  Your quite a LADY.  

I find it disgusting that the person who sent me this felt she could get into a WORLD OF TROUBLE for sending this to me.  Wow, That's SCARY, what country do we live in again??


Message: 1
   Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 03:35:57 EDT
   From: 
Subject: ATTENTION: Please, No More Advertising Wayne's Products

Hello everyone,

As all of you know, I encourage you to post about various bird items that you
want input on or recommend and enjoy.  Foods, gyms, toys, cages etc.  I also
encourage the sharing of articles, research and other aviculture data. 

However, members, I feel very much obligated to stop the constant attempt to
advertise and promote one particular person and his products.  I am speaking
of Wayne from Wayne's Parrot Stuff & gyms.

I have nothing to do with advertising and promoting my product on this chat or any other chat.  I have NEVER, repeat NEVER, been on any chat rooms or forums EVER.  For me to do so would be unethical and dishonest, in my opinion.  However, If my clients and their birds LOVE my stuff, and choose to talk about it, maybe that's because I offer a good product. 

I want you to know that this decision is based on a great deal of thought and
research.  This is not personal nor is my decision meant to be hurtful.  As
the list owner of Macaw Dreams, I have a responsibility to the safety and
welfare of our birds.

This is great!  You go after me and my site, Ban any mention on your forum, and claim it isn't meant to be HURTFUL.  If you didn't want to be hurtful, you would have contacted me first to discuss your concerns and express an opposing view.  

I know of at least one highly respected bird site that will not allow Wayne
to advertise at all.  I was told that the decision was made after the site's
owner found out Wayne's trees contain hardware that is not stainless steel.

You we're told wrong and I challenge you to prove to me that I ever contacted a site regarding advertising.  I have never contacted any site, period, and asked about advertising.  I don't know who is saying this, but it is untrue.  I am a one man operation and have all the work I can handle.  I use Bottlebrush and it's the BEST wood for parrots there is BAR NONE.  However, it isn't commercially available, and if I opened a small factory, I could certainly produce plenty of trays, but never get enough Bottlebrush for run it.   

As for the Stainless Steel issue, Electroplated hardware is 100% safe.  I have a dedicated page on my site called THE ZINC BOOGIEMAN.  If you want to be educated about the issue, read that page.  If you want to use this issue to attack me and my Gyms, go right ahead.  I'll stand by my product completely.  I have dedicated the last 11 years of my life to these gyms and what they are intended to do for your birds and eventually you.  If there we're any possibility Electroplated hardware was dangerous, I wouldn't use it.  Anyway, about 60% of the hardware I use is already stainless to prevent rusting.  What's exposed are the Screw Eyes.    

However, my decision to ban the promotion of his products and claims is based
on the information I obtained from speaking with his customers and from
spending several hours reading his website.

I find the thought of BANNING one site and ideas from a Forum or Chat room very disturbing.  I thought the idea of these forums was to allow a free flow of thoughts and ideas.  I guess members need to carefully monitor what is Politically Correct on this Chat, otherwise, they might be banned as well.  This mentality scares me

Members, I must question his "expertise" as well as his unsubstantiated
claims which go directly against some of the leading bird authorities.  While
we
may or may not agree with the views of various "experts," I find some of
Wayne's
comments to be greatly without merit.

If you visit my Ask Rio page, I clearly state that I am not an EXPERT.  There are TOO many of those around already.  What I am is a person who has been involved with birds for 30+ years.  20 + years ago, I found myself being given birds.  At one time, I had 18.  These birds would today be called rescues.  Most had one thing in common.  They spent most of their days in and around their cages, and we're very aggressive about defending those cages.  However, I found that when I put them somewhere else, a Play Gym for example, they were much easier to handle.  I bought every Play Gym I could find, however, most of these weren't liked by the bird, and they wouldn't stay there for long.   11 years ago, I began to develop a Play Gym they would stay on.  For the last 11 years,  I have spent my life developing these gyms and attempting to change the lives of Parrots and the perceptions of Parrot Owners.  

A word about so called EXPERTS.  I can read every book there is about Child Birth.  I can talk to thousands of Moms, however, unless I have experienced Child Birth, I really don't know what it's like.  Birds are similar.  Just because someone is a Vet, or has had a bird or two, doesn't mean they are an expert.  I recently sold a Play Gym to a Lady with a Macaw.  She said she was a Parrot EXPERT, and was writing a parrot book.  Her experience was one Macaw, for about a year, but she considered herself an expert because she had ready every book she could find, and condensed the info into her own book.  Many EXPERTS are more concerned with being Politically Correct, and saying the RIGHT thing because they don't have the foundation of practical, hands on experience to make contrary decisions.  

So, who decides who the EXPERTS are, you, me?  Does a person qualify as an EXPERT if you agree with them, and not an expert if their opinions are contrary to your opinion or mine.  Does having one bird make you an expert, or is it necessary to be a Vet to be an expert.  And is a Vet an expert if they don't have any birds.  Can someone be an expert and not agree with what the other experts say?  Are you an expert because you have read tons of books?

His encouragement of ignoring a bird's need to sleep is questionable, to say
the least.
" If you go to bed at 11PM, put your bird to bed at 11PM."

As you know, many Avian Veterinarians, bird consultants and aviculturists
have stressed the importance of our bird's need for sleep. "It amazes me how
many
people, even when informed about a parrot's need for 10 to 12 hours of dark
sleep time daily, simply do nothing to improve the bird's situation." Liz
Wlson, CVT Bird Talk Magazine.  Wilson, along with other experienced
consultants
have linked serious behavioral and physical problems to a bird's lack of sleep.

The idea that I don't think birds need sleep is ridiculous and misstates my opinions.   Most parrot related problems are related to your bird being caged where they roost for about 20 hours a day.  When your bird is caged for 20+ hours a day, they get plenty of sleep.  What they need is a great, fun FREE place to spend their days, and a roost to sleep in, like in the wild. 

Wayne goes on to write: "You make sure your parrot get a full 12 hours of
sleep a night.  I have to comment on this one.  Whoever wrote this has never
had
a bird in my opinion.  This is plain DUMB.  Birds nap throughout the day.  12
hours sleep a night is bird abuse."

A good night's sleep is dumb and abusive? His statements are a disturbing but
more importantly factually incorrect as he goes on to attempt to tell us the
natural sleeping pattern of birds in the wild: In the wild, do you actually
think your bird goes to bed at 6.30 PM, even though it doesn't get dark till
8.30 or 9 PM in the summertime.  The sun comes up at 6.30 in the summer, and
sets
at 9.00PM." 
In actuality the Rainforest, is located near the equator, the center of the
globe.  The rainforest receives nearly the same amount of sunlight all year. 
Sunrise and Sunset, in the  Tropical Rainforest,  average from: 5:58am sunrise
and 6:03pm sunset in January to sunrise in July being 6:09am and sunset being
5:53pm. 

In the Rainforest, your bird would wake in the morning, and spend 12 hours a day flying, exercising and searching for food.  When it gets dark, they roost until sunup.  If it's dark for 10 - 12 hours a night, they will sleep as long as it's dark.  However, our birds don't live in the Rainforest, on the Equator, they live in our homes, on our daily schedules.  Your bird, in the rainforest is free for the daylight hours.  Now lets look at your birds life in our homes.  

You wake at say, 7AM, and wake your bird.  (feel free to adjust these times to your schedule). You are getting ready for work, school, etc.  Most of us also have kids and spouses.  This morning time is usually pretty hectic, chances are, you don't have much time to spend with you bird.    When you get ready to leave for work. you lock your bird in her cage/roost and go to work for 8-10 hours a day.  Now, your bird, instead of being active and flying, etc, is in JAIL, waiting for you to get home from work.  I'm sorry, you can kid yourself into thinking your bird LIKES being locked up, but they don't.  However,  and unfortunately, over time, they will accept this situation and in my opinion, this is the foundation of about 90% of all parrot related behavior problems.  When you get home from work, you have dinner to cook, laundry to do, etc etc etc.  All the stuff we have to do.  So, your bird is FREE for a short time in the morning, and a short time in the evening.  However, Add 10-12 hours of sleep time, add 8-10 hours of time when your at work, and the balance is how much time your bird is FREE.  In the rainforest, by the end of a 12 hour busy day, during which time your bird has been FREE,  your bird would need 10 - 12 hours of sleep.  My point here is simple.  Your bird hasn't been free while your at work.  Your bird has been napping, totally bored,  waiting for YOU to come home, so he can get out and get some entertainment and attention.  When you get home, don't you think your bird would like to spend as much time with you as possible, and sleep during the day while your at work if tired.  There is nothing wrong with your bird staying up with you till 10PM.  Otherwise, they spend 20+ hours a day locked in their cage, for a couple of hours of freedom.  That's what we do to prisoners.   I don't care whether you agree or not, or whether the so-called EXPERTS agree with me.  As far as I know, I'm still entitled to free speech, and my opinions.  

I am also concerned about his dietary recommendations.  In the wild, do your
birds have breakfast at a local restaurant.  Do they use the drive thru, or go
inside.  I agree, this is a stupid question.  So, why does your bird need a
hot breakfast?  The answer, they don't.  Once again, they need what we can give
them.  If you are having a hot breakfast, give them some.  If you have
cereal, give them some.

If you disagree with my feeling regarding food, that's fine and your entitled.  However, I disagree with Pellets and don't use them.  

So I take it Fruit Loops and whole milk are OK?  As you know, malnutrition is
ramped in captive birds, "Malnutrition is still the underlying cause of 75 to
80 percent of the illness found in companion birds today." Bird Talk Magazine
Feb. 2001 

If we eat a steady diet of Fruit Loops and whole milk, we are also going to suffer effects.  All I'm saying is give your birds a wide variety of foods.   

On socialization and handling?  I have a great fear of anyone who takes the
following
outdated position of trying to show dominance over a bird.  Wayne recommends
grabbing the birds beak..."He becomes used to you handling and playing with
his beak, and is less likely to bite you.  You are also showing him that you
are
the Big Cheese, the Head Honcho and parrots need to know you are in charge. 
Anyone with a Macaw or Amazon knows that dominance is a constant struggle. "

Well known aviculturist, Steve Martin, shares the beliefs of most experienced
handlers in that, "The best animal training, and the best relationships, are
accomplished through positive interactions not dominance or other negative
approaches." 

The next time you visit a bird show, watch the way they handle their birds.  They don't walk up, in the middle of a show, and say STEP UP.  They scoop them up, USING THEIR BEAKS, because this is natural.  Your birds beak is his hand.  Watch the way they climb.  Also, watch birds in the wild.  A birds beak is the essence of their being.  They interact with each others beaks.  I'm sorry, you can disagree if you like, but I am also entitled to my opinion, even if you disagree.  

Quickly passing the entire matter of him saying all cages and harnesses are
bad I will move to his ever popular claims about how birds can live only on HIS
trees, unattended and sitting there for hours per day. 
"At some point in the future, YOU will feel completely comfortable leaving
him on his gym."  

Cages are for roosting.  In the rainforest, the only time your bird would ever spend their days where they roost is when they are nesting.  Then, they will defend their nest, as well as the tree the nest is in against intruders.  When your bird spends their days where they roost, over time, they consider their cage their nest, and feel the need to defend it.   

My gyms were designed to be the tree your bird lives in during the day, the cage becomes where they roost, like in the wild.  That was the idea behind their design, and everything about them is designed to accomplish that.  Most other Play Gyms are designed for your bird to spend an hour or two on, and that's about how long your bird will spend there.  My concept is that birds can be free, if the gym they are on was specifically designed with that use in mind.  Terrible idea I guess.  Better to lock them in their cage.  

Harnesses are terrible and unnecessary.  I categorize these along with Leg Chains.  

His advice on how to force your bird to stay on the tree, for hours, is
basic.  Simply put, he advises owners to, "If they are still jumping down,
replace
them and tell them to STAY THERE."

You don't force your bird to stay anywhere.  They stay there because I design my gyms in a way that it becomes their favorite place to be.  If your bird is free, and has a favorite place to be, a place they can do everything they would do naturally, climb, nap, chew, gnaw and eat, and they feel safe and secure there, why would they want to be anywhere else.  This is a learned behavior and completely natural.  What's more natural for your bird, spending their days free in a tree, or being locked in a cage.  Tough choice.  The more freedom your bird has, the more free your bird feels, the happier your bird will be, and the happier you and your household will be.  

I personally speak with each and every one of my clients.  These calls last from 20 minutes to over an hour.  I don't have to call to SELL anything, and I don't have to call.  It's called Customer Service, and most of my clients enjoy it.  I do it so my clients understand what my gyms are designed to do, how to train them, and answer questions and discuss you and your bird.  I guess that's a bad idea unless I express your Politically Correct view point.  For those of you who disagree with me, don't buy from me.  Your minds are closed to new concepts, and your birds are sentenced to a life locked in their cages most of the day.  For those of you who would like to have a happy, well adjusted, free bird,  that's what I offer.  

I will not bother going into the dangers of leaving a Macaw unattended in an
open home.  

You would never leave your bird unattended because I told you to.  After your bird is Play Gym trained, your bird will stay on his gym because he wants to, and loves it, and it's his favorite place to be.  You will be confident about leaving him there, or not.  You don't have to leave your bird out if you don't want to. 

I will not go into the fact that one of his customers posted about
how she is now locking her Macaw in a bathroom, all day, because she has no
cage and the bird will not sit on his tree.  

I love the way she says she won't go into the fact that one of my clients is locking her bird in the bathroom...  You just mentioned it.   

My client would never be told it isn't necessary to have a cage, never.  What I tell my clients is that you need a Play Gym, and a Cage/roost.   Your bird needs to roost somewhere different then where they spend their days.  In fact, I tell my clients that if they allow their bird to roost on their Play Gym, their play gym becomes a nest, with all the negative behavior associated with defending a nest.  

I WILL stress, once again, that Macaws & Cockatoos and many other species are
extremely active birds that are used to flying miles and miles per day.  The
idea of forcing them to stand in one place, in my opinion, is not the answer.

I agree, it's much better to LOCK them in a cage all day.

These birds need to burn energy, not be forced to contain it and sit for long
periods of time.  Sure, this CAN be accomplished with the results often being
a very lethargic bird.

My clients birds are at the gym all day.  They are Playing, Climbing , Hanging, Chewing and Gnawing and doing this as FREE Birds.  The idea that a bird being free, on one of my gyms, and being Lethargic is utterly ridiculous.  Lock your bird in his cage, give him Manzanita perches to stand on, and leave him there for about 20 hours a day, and see who's birds become lethargic.  

Members, the bottom line here is that I have an obligation to this list and
to our birds.  While I do not expect us all to agree and I do not expect all
opinions to match mine... I feel a great responsibility to avoid promoting
anyone who does not put our bird's best interest first. 

If your opinions don't match hers, you will simply be banned.  That's a great way to promote free expression.   You are absolutely setting the precedence that if you disagree, you will be banned.  Whether this is your intention or not, this is the end result.  You now have a group of YES MEN, making free expression a thing of the past.  In my opinion, this makes your group irrelevant, and those people looking for new, unique ideas and discussion need to go somewhere else.  There's free speech here, as long as you agree.   

In my opinion, Wayne and his products are not in our bird's best interest.  I
ask that you please no longer make mention of him, his site, his products and
please no longer continue to pass along his recommendations here on Macaw
Dreams. 

If we happen to loose members, who are his customers, I will understand. In
return, please understand this.  Macaw Dreams is here for the birds, that is
our priority:). 

Thank you for your cooperation,

Angie,
Macaw Dream's List Owner
The Future of Macaws, starts here.

After this, there were lots of letters agreeing with this person, and trashing me and my site.   No wonder, if you disagree, you will be banned.  

I have dedicated 11 + years of my life to change the perception people have about Parrots and cages.  The idea that my Products aren't in your birds best interest is utterly stupid.  

The real problem is this, Intolerance.  If you disagree with my opinions, That's fine.  Luckily for me, most visitors to my site don't order.  If 1% order a gym, I would be overwhelmed.  I want to offer a different perspective to what is currently considered Politically Correct.    I would never tell you you don't have a right to your opinion, and I expect to have the right to mine.  You, or anyone can go thru a site as large as this one is, and find things you disagree with, then take them out of context, and use that to discredit the whole site.  This person doesn't understand what I offer, and is intolerant of a different opinion.  Rather then disagree, but allow free expression, the mentality of people like this are to ban.  If I had a Book, would they have public Book Burnings.  Scary!

I am attempting to change the way we think about caring for our birds.  My birds, as well as thousands of my clients birds, are no longer spending endless hours locked in their cages.  This is a unique concept, and I offer the product designed to do this.  In the same way all the experts said the world was flat, all the so called Experts here say your bird MUST be caged, and your bird MUST eat only pellets, and your bird MUST get 12 hours of sleep.  I say why, and tell you how.  If you disagree, fine.  Here is a whole new concept in bird care and can literally change your birds lives, are you too shortsighted to see it?

Take a look at my Happy Letters page.  There are hundreds and hundreds of them.  I'm stepping on toes,  Cage Companies, Pellet Companies, etc.  In 11 years, I have built over 7500 Bottlebrush Play Gyms.  I am attempting to change the way we think about our birds, and eventually, allow our birds to live free.  My Gyms are designed to be more than just a stand.  They are a Play Gym, and are designed to allow your bird to spend their days Cage free.  This is what my Birds do, and thousands of my Clients birds.  Read My Happy Letters page to see what my clients think.  I can see why that's a really bad thing, especially to my competition.  

To the moderator of this site, and the person who wrote this, you should be ashamed of yourself.  The people on your forum were expressing their opinions, delight and experiences with a totally new concept of keeping and caring for parrots.   Rather then looking at my Gyms, and Bottlebrush, to see what all the excitement was about, you chose to visit one page, that page being clearly described as NOT politically correct, and my OPINIONS, and then pick out a few sentences you disagree with.  You then present them out of context and then precede to use those comments to discredit my whole site and ideas.

Had you looked at what I am offering, I think you and I are more in agreement about parrot care than you realize.  You say it's important that parrots get 12 hours of sleep, because that's what they do in the wild.  Exactly my point.  In the wild, during the day, they are free, NOT CAGED.  Suppose, just suppose, your bird could be taught to stay in a tree in your home, a tree specifically designed for this use, throughout the day, like they do in the wild.  They would stay there because they want to.  Suppose they could play, climb, chew, gnaw and nap as free birds.  Everything they need is there.  This is exactly what my birds, and my clients bird are doing today, as I write this.  I realize in your close minded state, you have made the decision this isn't possible, but, it is, and my clients are doing exactly that.     

You didn't look at my Happy Letters page to see hundreds and hundreds of letters from my clients.  You didn't comment on Bottlebrush which is the BEST wood there is for birds bar none.  No, you took a few words out of a site that has over 160 pages and millions of words,  and because you disagree with those words, you banned my site.  You are what is wrong with the internet.  You use your forum to push your agenda and opinions, at the expense of free speech.  You profess your site as a discussion forum, as long as you agree with the comments.    

For those of you who are parrot owners looking for information, make your own decisions.  Go to my site, and read my opinions.  Maybe I'm onto something that can really change your birds life.  You will find alot of intolerant people who feel that their opinion, and the opinions of people they agree with, are the only opinions worth listening to.  You live your own life, with your bird.  What works for me might not work for you, etc.  Expand your horizons, you might like what you discover.

Update, 9/24/03.

First things first.  You made a Statement above.  
I know of at least one highly respected bird site that will not allow Wayne
to advertise at all.  I was told that the decision was made after the site's
owner found out Wayne's trees contain hardware that is not stainless steel.

Either you prove this statement or retract it.  This never happened and I won't allow you to simply make things up.

Last night, I received 7 E-mails regarding this lady and her forum.  Question?  Have you ever heard of not burning your bridges.  I think you need to brush up on your people skills.  One of those e-mails provided me with a link to her site.  Here's what she does for her birds.

Her birds sleep in little birdy beds, with comforters and everything.  I looked to see what their Jammies looked like, but missed those pics.  I wondered if they had little feet and a flap on the butt.  She even shows you how to make your birds a bed.  I'm sure these plans came directly from the Rain Forest and are how birds sleep in the wild.  The Hardware used didn't look like stainless to me, but I couldn't tell.   Changing and washing the the bedding would need to be done daily i'm sure.  Maybe I missed the in-door, sorry, in-cage plumbing.  Imagine, in the middle of the night, FFFLLLUUUSSSHHHHH.

These beds however, confuse me.  I was also told her birds sleep in crates for 12 hours, and there are pics of her birds in crates.  How is it possible for a bird with an 18" tail to comfortably sleep in a crate.  Those crates don't look big enough for perches, or for them to turn around.  Wow!!

Breakfast is served each and every morning and is freshly made.  Entr�es consist of Birdie Pan Cakes, fresh fruit and veggies.  Lunch consists of a variety of fruits and veggies as well.   Water is filtered and changed several times a day.   During the day, Dry snacks are provided, as are sprouts.  In fact, these birds even have their own Brussel Sprout Tree.  And of course, they get Free Range Eggs with shells.

Daily activity consist of Spending hours outside.  They have their own Play Gym that mommy built. (It isn't necessary to tell your viewers Mommy built that gym, It's pretty obvious).  By the way, didn't any of those experts you agree with mention the importance of varying perch thicknesses??  Also, it's a good thing there are no Birds of Prey in your neighborhood, those birds are sitting ducks.  

They have their own Birdie Stroller for walks around the neighborhood.  

Hot and sweaty from spending all that time outdoors?  How about a dip in the pool.  These birds have their own pool.  I assume they take turns life guarding.    

After their swim, it's time to go to the Macaw Resort and Spa.  Here, they get live music, showers, including tail showers and even an afternoon hike.  After the exhausting day these birds are having, they are hand fed dinner.  That's right, hand fed dinner.  

After dinner, they have Cocktail Hour and then a movie on a Big Screen TV.  Movie snacks are provided of course.   I assume the movies provided are short, because these birds need to go to bed at an appropriate hour so they get their 12 hours of sleep a night.  

I could go on and on, but I won't.  This is what she does, and more.  My question is this, will this concept of bird care work for you.  I saw no mention of children, she calls these her KIDS.  This isn't the world I live in, and the world most of my clients live in.   This is what she calls, CAGE FREE LIVING. 

This woman is basically like a cruise director.  This level of daily care would be a full time job.  Time to do much of anything else, especially having a job and kids, would make this level of care impossible.  

So, what caused her to go after me and my business?  Here's what I have found out.  

I support a group called Cagefreeparrots.  It was started by a couple of my clients, past members of her group, and I agree with them regarding birds living cage free.  However, our idea of Cage Free will work for people with unimportant things like Jobs and Kids, hers won't.  She and her followers have a problem with CageFreeParrots, and have attacked me for supporting them.  Here's one of the E-mails I got last night.

Hi Wayne,

I just came across your article in response to the Macaw Dreams bull$**t.
Congratulations for calling it like it is.  I'm not on the group, but
everything that's been posted on the Cage Free list by the Macaw Dreams
members is just really...stupid.

They are a bunch of idiots.  Thank you for smacking them back where they
belong.

THANK YOU for telling people the word is really round!

The other reason is simple.  In my articles, I tell people it isn't necessary to give her level of care, and I go as far as saying it isn't a good idea.  Over the last 30 years, I have rescued 30+ parrots.  When I rescued these birds, two things happened on every one.  The owner told me they couldn't DEAL with the bird anymore, and thanked me for taking them.  If you turn having a bird from being fun into a full time job, it will soon become a chore.  As the level of care drops, your bird is going to demand THE GOOD OLD DAYS, and it's all down hill from there.  

My articles were directly written about people like her, and I think they struck home big time.  I think she is afraid of my articles, because I point out the fallacy of her kind of care.  Don't get me wrong.   She can certainly care for her birds any way she wants.  However, after dealing with her level of Intolerance, I'm sure she is one of those who feels that if you don't do what she does, you shouldn't have a bird.  That's what I have a problem with.  

My gyms aren't made for people like her, my gyms are made for people who live in the real world.

You started this, I didn't.  I'll be waiting for either the Proof you say you have about me attempting to advertising on a Parrot Site, or your retraction and apology.  I'll leave the space below for your reply.

Waiting for Proof.

Yesterday, 9/24/03, I received a ton of support from people who agree that free speech is important.  Many however, couldn't believe someone actually did all this stuff.  So, here's a link to her site, see for yourself.  http://www.macawdreams.com/.  If you agree with her, and her philosophies, join her group.  

The really sad part about this whole episode is that we AGREE about the necessity of getting our birds away from their cages.  We AGREE and should be allies.  However, what she expects is for everyone to do what SHE does, and is intolerant of those who can't.   

I discussed the comments this moderator made, but I also received tons of posts from her followers.  It was unbelievable that she would allow, and encourage, this kind of personal attack to take place on her forum.  The posts I saw were nothing more than a feeding frenzy, with her throwing the blood in the water.  SAD and disgraceful. 

As I said, I did nothing to start this, and wish it had never happened.  We should be allies, not adversaries.  There is no right or wrong, simply opinions.  After all, we both care deeply about birds. 

For those of you looking for a Chat or Forum where you can express your opinions without being Banned, Check out the CageFreeParrots page on my site.  Free Speech is alive and well there.

As for this Chat, Forum, whatever it's called.  This kind of activity has made free speech a thing of the past, and will make this Forum irrelevant to anyone with an opposing view.  Sad.  

If you allow this kind of censorship, you and your bird will eventually be the losers.  EVERY new idea, and concept, is considered controversial and the establishment ALWAYS tries to stomp it out.  However, every idea starts somewhere by someone with a different opinion and a new, fresh idea.  By the way, the experts were wrong,

The World is ROUND.